I Have to Disagree with Michel Fortin
April 2nd, 2009 | 
Author: I have always loved Michel Fortin. He’s a genius copywriter and marketer. But sometimes, even those you idolize have a point of view that you disagree with, and today’s Facebook update notice was one of those instances.
In his post, titled: Twitter Populated By Drones and Fakes, Fortin has an opinion about auto following and how Twitter is best used. We both agree on what a wonderful tool Twitter is – forcing you to choose and use your words carefully thanks to character limitations.
But let’s talk about where I disagree:
1.) Auto follows – Some people think it’s not a positive thing, including Fortin. However I believe it’s extremely important – especially for social marketers who are creating a following themselves. You may not like it, but people get offended if you get their follow and then you don’t follow back. In MY opinion, it’s like having someone wave hello to you and you just standing there staring at them. Kind of rude.
Now an ordinary person may not need to auto follow everyone but as a marketer, there are benefits to auto follows, the first of which is time. There are some days I have gained 60 followers in a single day – and I don’t have time to scour through and see who’s relevant and who’s not at that moment.
Another benefit as a social marketer is that it opens the door for your target audience to be able to contact you via Direct Message. Unless you follow them, they can only contact you with an @reply, which is public – and they may have a question they don’t wish to be seen by everyone. But he says in the same post that he doesn’t like giving people access to DMs because he’ll get too many DMs and won’t be able to respond. He says he has a support staff for that – and I say, “Then get the support staff to respond to those DMs 
”
In my opinion, auto follow everyone and if you want to secretly sort them out using a Twitter tool like Tweetdeck or whatever works for you, do it so that you’re not hurting anyone’s feelings or blocking them from the direct communication they deserve as your customer and prospect.
2.) Twitter posts – Fortin and I also disagree with how to best use Twitter. He believes it’s ridiculous and absurd to Tweet everyday details to your followers, mistakenly believing that his followers are only interested in celebrities. What Fortin fails to realize is that to many new and even seasoned marketers, he IS a celebrity in his own right – having created success where so many others fail. No, he might not be known to the tabloids, but he IS known on a global scale to his target audience.
Do people want to know what Michel and Sylvie are up to other than business? Sure many of them do! It makes you human and I know the Fortins have invited the public into their world on their own site, myself following their journey, so they understand the importance of it – they just don’t like doing it on Twitter perhaps.
Look at Jason Moffat – he streams live TV from his house and people are tuning in to watch him show grainy images from his garage so they can get a peek at his rack of surf boards. John Reese posts pics of his Lamborghini after a car wash and the Internet is abuzz about it!
Part of these minute details the Fortins are starving their Twitter followers from are the very motivators that many as yet unsuccessful marketers love to use for inspiration. You have the success they dream of – and that doesn’t only mean you know what tools or sites to use. It means you get to go to a nice restaurant or buy a big ticket item from your efforts. They like to know if big marketing gurus have days when they’re frustrated or unable to succeed at something, and Twitter can allow you to convey that without having to go into great detail.
When they are able to humanize you on all of your sites, including Twitter, they connect more deeply with what you teach them. Fortin and I DO agree on the fact that it doesn’t matter how many followers you have. The number doesn’t matter – but social networking courtesy does IMO.
Some argue that there’s no way you can follow the Tweets of thousands. True! But when I have time and log in, I go through a few pages and learn something and connect to various followers in my list. And I log in throughout the day, so I’m always stumbling on a good Tweet by someone on my list and I respond or DM them.
I guess when I read the post I felt like it was going two ways. Fortin first talks about how he doesn’t use Twitter for the personal details – just good sites he likes, tools, some good tips, etc. Yet later in the post he talks about how you have to get to know someone to follow them or it’s “creepy.” You get to know someone through personal Tweets – not by saying XYZ is a good product and you oughta try it. So if he’s not using Twitter for personal information, why not let his fans have a reciprocal follow?
Sure, not everyone feels the NEED to be followed back – but MANY do. If you’re a marketer and you make your living selling to online prospects (especially in the IM niche), then I say auto follow. And as a person who just loves social networking in general – I must tell you, I’m SO glad I have auto follow.
I’ve “met” some of the coolest people who happened to see my animated Twitter profile on someone else’s followers list come follow me – and I get to know them! One resulted in a great JV in fact. If I hadn’t auto followed I wouldn’t have gotten my DM from that marketer and been made an offer I couldn’t refuse
Just my $0.02
Tiff
Posted in Internet Marketing
I agree with you. I hate when I follow someone and they don’t follow back. To me that shows that they’re only out for themselves. They’re not long on my list either.
I also agree with your second arguement. Although, some people overuse Twitter. I deleted one guy because he seemed to send out a marketing message every thirty seconds. It ticked me off so I stopped following him.
I think Twitter is a great tool if used properly.
T, I have some pretty strong opinions on twitter — here’s my take 1) I think you should follow the people you are genuinely interested in following — that should not be 1000s of people as then i will likely miss many tweets from my core — not that i need to see each one but You get the point
2) i think the only people who should tweet about their business, charity, hobby etc are the ones who are earnestly passionate about it those projects you do even if dont get paid NOT biz where you in it for only money — you know who you are! 3) i think its important to share everyday things especially thoughts and ideas that come to you — I personally DO want to know if you had the BIG idea in shower or while cutting the grass puts human /real touch on it paints picture for me 3) Biggest fear is twitter will devolve into a spam machine – good news is that ME/YOU/US have control over who we follow in first place peeps who are spamming can and should be quickly unfollowed & called out why not! unlike email we can shut these folks down — hence my stand against autofollow which just plays into their hands my tweet sense
One more thing I want to start a WIT tweet prefix stand for “What If….”
Difficult to say one way or another. It all depends on how Twitter is used by the individual user and for what purpose. There isn’t just one point of view that happens to be more correct than the other.
It’s all in the social networking arena… and you have to remember the old addage: Different strokes for different folks.
Keep an open mind
Well I have to disagree on auto following. Sure, it can be rude not to ‘wave back’ as you put it. But I also think it’s rude that some people just follow hundreds of people just to get those people to follow them.
I’ve stopped doing it and now check everyone out personally. Sure, it takes time but IMO that shows I really do care…not the opposite. I don’t see the point of anyone following me (or me following them) if we have nothing in common.
I will NEVER follow anyone who can’t even be bothered to put up an Avatar. I don’t even look at their Tweet bit now.
Had one the other day… NO Avatar… NO posts… following 1999 people! And the worst part is 894 were following him/her… following WHAT exactly!
Interesting post as ever Tiff. I can’t now find your mail on how to do the wave thing. I want to do something similar (it won’t be a wave though. LOL!)
BTW I started following Sky News yesterday as part of my own G20 Update Tweets… Sky are now following ME!(The Police won’t be far behind
)
I dunno. I’ve gotten some nice followers lately but also people in whom I have zero interest, like sports buffs (?), dental business people. I’m like hellllooooo. I’m in marketing! Why are these people connecting with me? And I really have no desire to follow them.
Hi Tiffany,
Disagreeing with someone you look up to is the sign of a healthy camper.
Michael is a serious business guy and I see his point but you’ve made some good points too.
This is social and i think they wave back is good.
There’s a big difference between getting to know someone as a person and choosing to learn more about them as a result, or being constantly plugged with something they’re selling.
I still want to know how you do that cool waving thing.
Rick Falls
I had read Michel Fortin quite some my self and it’s no doubt on my mind that Mr. Fortin is a very speciall smart, intelligent person, but I would say that this time, unless I can see deeper one day in to his Twitter argument or way of seeing autofollowers sytem on twitter, Ihave to agree with you Tiffany, if I wave a hello and you do not respond I would be like, Damn! how rude that was, I just started my twitter very recently and I have see good results, so Tiffany I agree with you at this time of blog-life, wishing your continued success, Andres Luna.
Thanks for your input Tiff. Maybe I better go follow more of my followers. I was wondering how I could possibly keep up with all the peeps I am following. Like you said, read a few every once in a while and maybe learn some stuff.
Pat
Auto follow may not be an option for new twitter users but as you stated for those ceating a following for themselves it is effective for an efficient use of time.
What someone tweets about depends on their strategy. What seems uninteresting and mundane to you may be informational and exciting to another.
You can’t please everybody. So find your find your place in the Twitterverse and Tweet away.
There isn’t one fit all answer to this question. It all depends on how the user will use Twiter and to what end and purpose.
Remember: Different strokes for different folks
The jury is still sort of out for me but here is what I know – I’m online to market and build a business. A big part of that is developing relationships with people.
I’m not going to “auto-follow” someone who is outside of my target market and we don’t “connect” in many ways just because it’s not polite to NOT follow.
On the reverse side, I want people to follow me because they like what I offer in terms of value and content. I want them to follow and appreciate my “tweets.”
Seth Godin has some GREAT youtube clips on the topic and he tends to agree with Michael.
Having 40,000 followers who have no clue who I am nor desire to know does nothing for my business, my social life, or my ego, ha!
I believe that many of us are still finding our way and that will evolve.
I did an autofollow program for 24 hours and notice an odd trend that after I followed, there were many “qwitters” who unfollowed me.
Hmmm, that’s automated too. Who’s REALLY connecting, and if no one is, what’s the point?
I’m here for the good old, REAL connections!
EXPECT Success!
Jackie Ulmer
I, too, was disappointed when I saw Michael’s blog about not following people.
The first thing that came to mind is that he has over 4,000 followers right now and he follows only 200+.
I don’t mind if Michael wants to limit his followers, I just don’t like him telling me what I should or should not do.
As to the value of having a lot of followers, that is still debatable. I’m not sure it matters much until you get way up there.
I saved a personal list of people I want to check in on occasionally. Then I go to Twitter Search and do that.
I am not yet sold on Twitter as a marketing paradise or even close to that. Let’s say you have 5,000 followers. If you tweet something, how many of those see the tweet? I did my own tests and found that about 2% of my followers will see the tweet.
However, Twitter can be very good for other uses like raising funds for charity, getting quick answers to tough questions and, yes, maybe even finding work.
By the way, if you need someone to do internet tasks for you, my bright 20 year old son is ready and willing! Please email me. He will work for peanuts!
Mike, I hear ya. Some people get carried away
Michael – use a tool like Tweetdeck to create lists. You can filter those people who you REALLY wanna listen to so you don’t miss anything
Baron – I agree – it’s different for all.
Dave – I don’t follow back for numbers. I do it as a social courtesy. Remember, I’m saying for marketers – and if you’re marketing right, you will be followed by your prospects, and I believe it’s good business to be accessible via Twitter.
Dena, maybe they find you interesting and want to learn from you. I may not be interested in 100% of what someone else is, but maybe the dentist wants to know how to market his online website or something. LOL
Rick, exactly – I don’t mind plugs, but give me some of YOU, too, right?
Andres, thanks for your input! Glad you can see both points of Michel and I.
Pat, check out Tweetdeck if you get bogged down and start being unable to see certain people’s Tweets.
Jackie, I agree totally! There will always be differing opinions and usages
Oh, and regarding the animated profile pic – it is an animated gif BUT the unfortunate news is, Twitter decided they didn’t want everyone using those (files too big or something), so they disabled the ability to use them now – only if you already had it. So that sucks
If I ever change mine, I won’t be able to get it back.
tiff
Frankly, I don’t autofollow. I like to personally go to the person’s twitter page, read their bio and even visit their website before I decide to follow them.
If they are “interesting,” I will follow them. Does that make me a twitter snob? Possibly.
But I am not going to waste my time with people who tell me what they ate for lunch everyday.
Interesting people give interesting links, and their posts are fun to read.
As to a marketing tool, I believe the interesting people let you know them personally and do business at the same time. Why? Because their business is an integral part of who they are.
Judith
Tiffany,
I appreciate your comments. It’s nice to see someone with substance voicing their opinions. But I’d like to address some of the points you made.
You said: “However I believe it’s extremely important – especially for social marketers who are creating a following themselves.”
Exactly. I agree. So… Would you rather create a fake following of people who follow you ONLY because you are following them? Or would you rather have people follow you because they are genuinely interested in what you have to say?
I ride on the latter.
You said: “In MY opinion, it’s like having someone wave hello to you and you just standing there staring at them. Kind of rude.”
That’s why I follow those who make an effort to wave and say “hello” in the first place. Not just because they’re looking at you and following you around the room. THAT is kind of rude too, don’t you think?
If you follow someone with the only expectation of a follow back, without any introduction, is just as rude.
Actually, this point, which you make, irks me.
Why is this good for the goose and not for the gander? You seem to imply that not following back is rude, but to me following someone expecting a follow back is JUST as rude.
To me, it’s like having a misguided sense of entitlement. Do you deserve a follow back just because you’re following me? Something’s not right, here. I believe one should earn the follow, not extort it.
(I’ll come back to this later because it’s tied to something else you said.)
You said, “I don’t have time to scour through and see who’s relevant and who’s not at that moment.”
Isn’t this exactly what choosing your follows does? In fact, the counter-argument the auto-follow proponents have used is, “I will auto-follow everyone, and then afterwards choose to weed out and unfollow the undesirables.”
That’s akin to saying, “I’ll allow all the spam in my inbox, and I’ll simply take the time to read them all and delete the undesirables.”
Or better yet, “I don’t care about opt-in. I prefer an opt-out policy. I want EVERYONE to spam me. And I’ll simply opt-out of all the spam I don’t want to receive.”
To me, that’s a heckuvalot more time-consuming, no?
My time is valuable. I don’t have time to weed out the undesirables. That’s why I prefer to follow only those people who engage me, and have something worthwhile to say in which I find value.
Isn’t that what true relationships are all about? Or better yet, isn’t that what a true FOLLOWER does?
You said, “He says he has a support staff for that — and I say, ‘Then get the support staff to respond to those DMs’.”
Sorry to disappoint, but my Twitter account is me. It’s really, really me. It’s not a ghostwriter, a staff member, or someone pretending to be me. If someone gets a DM from a staff member, then that would make all my tweets suspect, which defeats the purpose of transparency and social media (and posting personal details on Twitter) in the first place, methinks.
You said, “Do it so that you’re not hurting anyone’s feelings or blocking them from the direct communication they deserve as your customer and prospect.”
Wow. This shocks me.
So… people DESERVE direct contact, even if they’re only a prospect? Hmm, that’s some heck of a sense of entitlement. That’s like saying, “Just because I may be interested in Microsoft Windows, I fully deserve to contact Bill Gates privately.”
No, most people who want to DM me are NOT clients, or even prospects for that matter, as you imply. (Real clients have other ways to access me, anyway.)
No, people who want to directly contact me, without engaging me or cultivating a relationship with me, are freebie-seekers. Or they expect free advice.
Sorry, but I run a business, not a charity.
Your argument is like saying, “If you’re in business then you MUST publish your street address, your mobile phone number, your personal email, etc. Why? Because your prospects DESERVE it. Period.”
That’s absurd. It’s an open invitation to stalking. Plus, you do get (typically) customer service from all the big corporations, no? Even if you can’t DM all their CEOs? Of course. So why would this be any different?
My DM inbox is just as precious as my time. And if you really wanted to ask me a question, then why not @ reply with, “I have a question, where can I ask?” or “Could you follow me? I have a question I wish to DM you about?”
In fact, if you engage me and enter into a relationship with me, and we follow each other, then because of that relationship I’m not only open to your DM but I also welcome it and look forward to it.
To me, you’re at least making an effort to introduce yourself, and if that were to happen, in many cases I would follow back. Either that or do what I can to help this person if I can’t do it via DM. Because that would be the COURTEOUS thing to do.
You said, “What Fortin fails to realize is that to many new and even seasoned marketers, he IS a celebrity in his own right.”
Read Randy Gage’s article I’ve posted on my blog. When you are a celebrity, people are interested in some of the minutia.
Just not all of it.
Besides, I’m too busy growing my business and serving my paying clients to waste time on Twitter posting every time I sneeze. It’s nonsense. I don’t think people would be interested in knowing what I had for lunch — and personally, I don’t care about it with others, either.
Again, micro-blogging is still blogging. You don’t follow everyone who comments on your blog. But you do reply, and you also choose who to reply to.
You said, “They just don’t like doing it on Twitter perhaps.”
Of course we do! But there’s a difference between minutia versus posting what interesting book I’m reading, what fascinating website I’m visiting, what newfangled software I’m testing. And even personal things like when my band writes a new song, when my daughter posts a video, or when my mother and my wife are struggling with the aftereffects of their breast cancer.
There IS such a thing as “too much information”.
Again, I did say I’m against “minutia,” which doesn’t mean “Twitter should only be used to post strictly professional information or promotions.” Bleechhh.
I love giving people an inside look at my life. It’s transparency, and it’s the basis for creating relationships, and trust.
But there’s a difference between tweeting the occasional personal blather versus putting a webcam in my house like in Big Brother following my every move. Eek!
Jason Moffatt may have a camera, but he doesn’t have it on 24/7 in every room of his house. And if he does, I personally wouldn’t care — even though I AM a big fan of Jason.
You said, “Part of these minute details the Fortins are starving their Twitter followers from are the very motivators that many as yet unsuccessful marketers love to use for inspiration.”
No, we’re not starving anyone. People starving for minutia aren’t starving for details, as you imply. They’re looking for free advice. They want a free lunch. I don’t do free lunches.
I do post about my interests, my struggles, my failures as well as my successes. Just not every single, silly little detail. And THAT is what I meant.
Again, I refer back to my blog post. Watch the brief video from Perry Marshall I linked to.
You said, Twitter is good because it’s “forcing you to choose and use your words carefully thanks to character limitations.”
I say Twitter should also force you to choose your friends carefully thanks to character — that’s personal character — limitations.
As an example of “character,” I don’t have the desire to pretend to be someone’s fake friend. Being a true friend, or someone who is genuinely interested in what you have to say, is indicative of someone’s character.
(Also, I don’t mean to say auto-following makes you a fake. It’s that the proponents have perpetrated this myth — i.e., that not auto-following makes you a snob — precisely because they wanted to create peer pressure so they can build their giant lists. Something to think about.)
You said, “The number doesn’t matter – but social networking courtesy does IMO.”
Courtesy? Following that argument, I guess you must follow back a crazed psychopathic homicidal stalker, just because they are following you, as to not appear rude.
I don’t think so.
Courtesy is a virtue, not some innate right or entitlement. Said in a different way, the lack of follow-back doesn’t mean one is being discourteous, either.
(And that, ultimately, is the myth that’s being propagated. Some people look like their heroes when they are fakes, while other people who genuinely care and are concerned about their prospects and clients are made to look like snobs and bad people. And that, to me, is really, really sad.)
Courtesy is what introducing yourself does. That’s what engaging someone does. That’s what creating and building a relationship does.
Therefore, making the effort to introduce yourself to me is just as courteous, isn’t it? Why should I be expected to be courteous and you not (by not introducing yourself first in order to EARN my follow back)?
Courtesy is a two-way street. And following someone with the sole expectation of a return follow is NOT, in my opinion.
In fact, if you follow me with the expectation of a follow back is just as discourteous if not more so.
You said, “Yet later in the post he talks about how you have to get to know someone to follow them or it’s ‘creepy’.” And, “So if he’s not using Twitter for personal information, why not let his fans have a reciprocal follow?”
Hmm, something about that argument doesn’t seem right. Also, if they are my fans, does this mean I have to be theirs, too? Doesn’t this defeat the whole idea behind being a fan in the first place?
Again, I DO post personal information. You’re misquoting me. What I did say is that I don’t like using Twitter for minute details. That is absurd to me.
Again, thanks for this opportunity.
Hate to say it Tiffany, but I completely agree with Michel. I too choose not to follow “everyone who follows me”.
IMHO, social media is NOT about connecting with tens of thousands of people and having superficial relationships with each.
It’s about developing those few “meaningful” relationships, introducing yourself, if you like at a “party”, and still chatting with people, even if you choose not to follow their every move.
- David
maybe its the job of those your following to attract your attention amongst the crowd and the noise.
Maybe by auto following i’m actually allowing new people into my circle, and eventually a year fom now a person i wouldnt otherwise have interacted with becomes an integral part of my circle.
By being selective you may be missing out on someone you could genuinly become friends with.
Hi Tiff!!
Yes, autofollow is a must have for me. Twitter is about building relationships, but how to get to know people if you don’t give them a chance?
You can always delete them later or even block them.
I actually auto unfollow anyone who unfollows me, and delete anyone who didn’t follow me back. It is not only a matter of having a big ego; twitter has some filters regarding the amount of people you can follow without being followed back.
This might be a wake up call for some… if you don’t follow back and you are catering to marketers, they will probably unfollow you sooner or later.
One of the things that is revolutionary about twitter is that it allows commoners to intermingle with celebrities… that direct communication IS really new since the village sizes went over 20 members or so.
And, to make the long story short… it is not a matter of good or bad, it is a matter of taking business decisions and dealing with the consequences.
Hi Michel!
Thanks for stopping by – I love a good dialogue
Let me address your questions and comments below:
1.) Who said a following is fake? I love to have all followers and love to follow them back to see what someone’s like. There’s been a coupe of people I unfollowed because they started being pornographic, but I gave them a chance to be someone I might want to know more about. I strongly believe there’s a lot people have in common. I may not find a good nugget of marketing info from one guy, but his recipe for XYZ that he posted a link to on Twitter might go over well with my family at dinner.
2.) You said: “That’s why I follow those who make an effort to wave and say “hello” in the first place.” But do you really do this? I see you have almost 5,000 followers and you only follow a little over 240. I find it hard to believe a good deal of those 4,777 followers haven’t @replied to you. Did you follow them back? Who made the 246 cut and how did the others feel who didn’t get a follow – especially after reading that criterion on your blog post. They might wonder why they’re not worthy even after @replying to you.
3.) You said, “Why is this good for the goose and not for the gander? You seem to imply that not following back is rude, but to me following someone expecting a follow back is JUST as rude. To me, it’s like having a misguided sense of entitlement. Do you deserve a follow back just because you’re following me? Something’s not right, here. I believe one should earn the follow, not extort it.”
Like I said before, in my opinion, on a social networking site, where social is the key word, it’s just good manners to say hey when someone says hey to you. On Twitter, a follow is akin to a greeting and way of saying, “Sure, I’d like to get to know you.” You’re not giving people a chance to be WORTHY if you don’t follow them to see what they have to say. You make them come to you with an @reply for everything. What if 99% of the good posts they post to Twitter aren’t directed to Michel Fortin but are worthy, nonetheless?
4.) You said, “Isn’t this exactly what choosing your follows does? In fact, the counter-argument the auto-follow proponents have used is, “I will auto-follow everyone, and then afterwards choose to weed out and unfollow the undesirables. That’s akin to saying, “I’ll allow all the spam in my inbox, and I’ll simply take the time to read them all and delete the undesirables.” Or better yet, “I don’t care about opt-in. I prefer an opt-out policy. I want EVERYONE to spam me. And I’ll simply opt-out of all the spam I don’t want to receive.” To me, that’s a heckuvalot more time-consuming, no?”
A social networking site is far different from an email inbox. Email comes to you. Tweets are on a public site that YOU go to. You can auto follow your followers and then if someone proves themselves Unworthy of your follow by doing something distasteful, etc., you can unfollow them. Otherwise, it’s a courtesy to everyone else and gives you the chance to learn something from someone else or meet their needs in some other way.
5.) You said, “My time is valuable. I don’t have time to weed out the undesirables. That’s why I prefer to follow only those people who engage me, and have something worthwhile to say in which I find value. Isn’t that what true relationships are all about? Or better yet, isn’t that what a true FOLLOWER does?”
And you can have a specific filter on TweetDeck, too. You can categorize them if you need to. What I’m saying is, how do you know you won’t be engaged by those 4,777 individuals who love what Michel Fortin has to say? You don’t give them a chance unless they @reply to you.
6.) You said, “Sorry to disappoint, but my Twitter account is me. It’s really, really me. It’s not a ghostwriter, a staff member, or someone pretending to be me. If someone gets a DM from a staff member, then that would make all my tweets suspect, which defeats the purpose of transparency and social media (and posting personal details on Twitter) in the first place, methinks.”
I agree, actually – but you made statements about how you don’t give free lunches and responding to DMs would be akin to giving yourself freely or whatever. On your blog post, it said, “People who auto-follow and want to DM are looking for free advice. A free lunch. I don’t do free lunches.”
But you do! You post good free advice all the time – on your blog, on Twitter. Why not on a DM? If it’s something they ask that you have answered in a product, then by all means say, “Oh I answer that on XYZ.com” and let them buy the answer.
7.) You said, “Wow. This shocks me. So… people DESERVE direct contact, even if they’re only a prospect? Hmm, that’s some heck of a sense of entitlement. That’s like saying, “Just because I may be interested in Microsoft Windows, I fully deserve to contact Bill Gates privately.”
No, not Bill Gates. But you can bet if I walk into a computer store and am about to contribute to Mr. Gate’s bank account, he’ll have someone there – a clerk or whomever – willing to answer my questions. He’ll also have a 1-800 number I can call to ask questions before I spend money.
And yes, they DESERVE direct contact even if they’re only a prospect. Especially if they’re a prospect, in fact! They’re considering investing time and money into you – into what you teach.
8.) You said, “Sorry, but I run a business, not a charity. Your argument is like saying, “If you’re in business then you MUST publish your street address, your mobile phone number, your personal email, etc. Why? Because your prospects DESERVE it. Period. That’s absurd. It’s an open invitation to stalking. Plus, you do get (typically) customer service from all the big corporations, no? Even if you can’t DM all their CEOs? Of course. So why would this be any different?”
Publishing your home phone number is nothing like allowing people to contact you on a public social networking site. Social networking sites are SOCIAL. Not a one-way ticket to traffic to your website. It’s a back and forth, a give and take.
9.) You said, “…if you really wanted to ask me a question, then why not @ reply with, “I have a question, where can I ask?” or “Could you follow me? I have a question I wish to DM you about?”
Yeah they can do that. Having to ask to be followed? I doubt most people would, but whatever floats your boat
10.) You said, “In fact, if you engage me and enter into a relationship with me, and we follow each other, then because of that relationship I’m not only open to your DM but I also welcome it and look forward to it. To me, you’re at least making an effort to introduce yourself, and if that were to happen, in many cases I would follow back. Either that or do what I can to help this person if I can’t do it via DM. Because that would be the COURTEOUS thing to do.”
But they didn’t make you come to them and introduce themselves. They followed to find out more about you. We’ll just have to agree to disagree here. I feel like you’re making people jump through hoops to converse with you on a social site, which TO ME is not what web 2.0 is all about.
11.) You said, “Besides, I’m too busy growing my business and serving my paying clients to waste time on Twitter posting every time I sneeze. It’s nonsense. I don’t think people would be interested in knowing what I had for lunch — and personally, I don’t care about it with others, either.”
Right – not every sneeze. Or lunch. But humanizing is a good thing. I checked your Twitter profile and you do seem to share some more personalized stuff (ie: what TV shows you’re into for example), but in your blog post it made it sound like you were strictly business. Sorry I misunderstood that part – it was a LONG post. Lol
12.) We agree on following solely for list building being ridiculous. I’m also not calling anyone a snob. I think not following those who follow you is a misuse of your social networking skills AS a marketer.
13.) You said, “Courtesy? Following that argument, I guess you must follow back a crazed psychopathic homicidal stalker, just because they are following you, as to not appear rude.”
Once he proves to be a “crazed, psychopathic, etc etc,” I’ll unfollow him. I think you’ll agree that most of your 4,777 people don’t fit into that category, right? Most are genuine good people who want to connect to someone they admire – Michel Fortin.
On social networking sites, sending a “friend request” or following IS a person’s way of introducing themselves. We disagree about courtesy, etc. Neither of us will change our minds on that
14.) You said, “…if they are my fans, does this mean I have to be theirs, too? Doesn’t this defeat the whole idea behind being a fan in the first place?”
No, not really! You can show your appreciation to your followers with a reciprocal follow. Even celebrities stop and sign autographs, you know
Consider it like that – you can devote a small portion of your day to sign an autograph of 140 characters can’t you?
Again, Michel – love you to death, have learned a ton from you and will continue to admire you! Just thought it was important to put another side to the story out there. We’ll all disagree with each other from time to time and I love a good debate! It’s how we all learn
Tiff
Anyone who thinks I’m going to autofollow them is delusional.
You have to EARN that right!
You have to WOW me!
You have to make it worth my while!
In a perfect world I’d love to interact with everyone who sent me a message via email, twitter, facebook, or the other 30 social media sites I belong to.
But the fact remains, there is only 24 hours in a day.
Now I can understand those that are up and coming wanting to stay in touch with their followers. But what do you do when you get roughly 350 messages per day through all these channels?
What about when it skyrockets to 800? 1000? 2400 per day?
Let’s face it, you can’t Twitter Lance Armstrong and expect a reply or a refollow.
Eventually someone’s popularity reaches a critical mass and it’s just not feasible to be social with everyone.
Call me a Twitter Snob, but unless you’ve proven your value to me in some way or another I don’t have time or desire to hear what the majority of people on Twitter are saying.
I care about what my “FRIENDS” and people I look up to are saying.
If you want me to follow you on Twitter, well then you need to give me a real reason to do so.
Let’s acknowledge that an average marketer with a few hundred (or thousand) followers has a VERY different Twitter experience to an IM celebrity with tens (or hundreds) of thousands of followers.
Maybe there’s an argument to be made for autofollowing being pointless once you hit your DM limit, but until then it’s a way of putting your name out there. Not just in front of those that are already following you, but for THEIR followers as well.
The anti-autofollow argument sounds like the same line people have been using to rubbish traffic exchanges – “Everyone just wants to promote their website, and won’t bother looking at yours” – it sounds like a valid argument… except that traffic exchanges work.
Totally agree with you.. Twitter is about meeting people from all walks of life.. and yes I always get really fed up with people who don’t follow me back.. If I smile at someone I love it when then smile back.. its a nomal feeling to want reciprocration..Good luck and thanks for the post..
I knew your opinion from the WF JMo LOL
Your so social online that you’re very reachable anyway. But you need to autofollow 
I still stand by the fact that you can follow, use Tweetdeck, and check in with your followers on reg Twitter to see if any ARE worthy of following more closely – they don’t have a chance.
Blimey, you got some comments here Tiff.
I’ve been using Twitter since just after it started, and when you ‘could’ get on & not meet a blank screen it was time for celebration. Schobie was in every other Tweet and I wondered what on earth I was doing there. But there was an awful lot of great information flowing, especially from Guy Kawasaki’s Tweets that are always laden with links.
I’ve always checked manually because I don’t get too many followers, and I used to send personal DM’s as a courtesy. The last couple of months however, there has been a lot of negative flow about DM’s, so I’ve stopped.
I do still check individually and probably would go to ‘auto-reply’ if I could find ouit how to do it
I’ve searched, and I can’t find the facility. Ahh well.
As for what to say in Tweets, I do include links to my blogs and sites more these days because the ‘personal’ touch seems to be leaving. I do say things in the heat of the moment and share my thoughts and opinions perhaps a bit too freely, but to me, that’s what Twitter should be about.
Marketing should be the by-product of Tweeting, not the be-all & end-all as many members now seem to use it for. It seems Michel Fortin (who I do respect) has taken the view that his inclusion in the Twitterverse will be strictly marketing. It’s a shame, but that’s people for ya.
I’ll be trudging along in my own little world, watching you wave to my grandaughter who always asks me to get your avatar up when she comes round on a Sunday
It’s quite fun to see my ‘follow count’ bounce up and down when I have one of my political rants I must say.
If you can tell me in 140 characters how to auto-follow, I’d appreciate a DM from you (or anyone else here for that matter
to @petemoring
A good little debate going on here.
Pete.
IMHO, there is one person in this string of replies that got it right. And it’s not Michel, Tiffany or even Seth.
It’s ‘Baron’s Life’. He says: “It’s all in the social networking arena… and you have to remember the old addage: Different strokes for different folks. Keep an open mind.”
To me the beauty of Twitter is it’s versatility for different purposes. I don’t expect CNN or Shaq to follow everyone who follows them. They are using Twitter in a different way than most. By the same token, I respect Michel’s strategy of NOT following back, as well as Tiffany’s strategy of auto-following.
I personally fall in the auto-follow camp, because my PURPOSE is to reach as many solo entrepreneurs as possible, because I believe I have valuable resources to share with them (and they seem to agree). There’s nothing fake about it; I DO respond to all (personalized) DMs and @replies, and I try to add something interesting to the conversations of those I follow when I can.
The true beauty of Twitter is the ability to choose your crowd. My crowd follows me. I unfollow most of those who don’t follow back (after a decent interval). By coincidence, I unfollowed Michel a couple of days ago — not because I think he’s a snob, per se, but because he and I aren’t here for the same purpose — and so continuing to follow him would be fake. I continue to follow Tiffany; she follows me back and she introduced me to this exciting conversation!
So, Michel, please don’t try to tell me how to use Twitter. Tiffany, please don’t be offended by those who don’t follow you (I’m trying hard not to too!); they just aren’t part of your “crowd”. Let’s all respect each other’s way of using Twitter, and if your way doesn’t agree with my way, that’s cool…we just won’t hang out in the same bar
Hmmm, Tiffany, you seem to be misquoting me again. And I must add, your argument doesn’t make sense.
First, I didn’t say I would follow everyone who @ replies me. Go back and read my post. I said I may follow back those who @ reply AND whose tweets I find of value. It’s the beginning of a relationship — a relationship I wish to cultivate. It’s not one-sided. Auto-follow is.
And being “social” doesn’t mean following or befriending. Being engaged in a conversation — just as we’re having now — is being social, isn’t it?
You don’t have to follow someone to see their history of tweets. This assumption of following someone to hear/see what they’re saying is B.S.
And as for the free lunches, I DIDN’T SAY I wouldn’t give out free advice, which you seem to imply. I simply prefer to do it on my own terms.
There’s a difference between giving free advice when I can, versus giving it on demand.
You said, “No, not Bill Gates. But you can bet if I walk into a computer store and am about to contribute to Mr. Gate’s bank account, he’ll have someone there – a clerk or whomever – willing to answer my questions.”
Yup, that’s called a HELPDESK.
You said, “They’re considering investing time and money into you – into what you teach.”
Ahhhh, there’s the difference. They’re buying a product, not my time. When someone is thinking about buying my product, they’re buying my product — not me or my time. That’s why we have a support team, a helpdesk, and a toll-free number.
My Bill Gates argument still stands.
In fact, I almost find your argument insulting. The person who created a company or is the voice of the company is not expected to be 100% accessible to everyone, all the time, just because others are interested in or following them.
You said, “Having to ask to be followed? I doubt most people would, but whatever floats your boat.”
Seriously, Tiffany? That was snarky. (But I may be misreading it, and I’m sorry if I am.)
But think about what you just said. If you asked me to follow you specifically for the purpose of asking me a private question, I would consider it.
And yes, some people have. And I did.
(If most people wouldn’t ask me to follow them to ask a private question, as you say, then that precisely underlines the fact that most people who would only follow me to access me would do so just to seek free advice — not for legitimate support or sales questions. After all, if they make an effort to contact me, then they are serious.)
You said, “I feel like you’re making people jump through hoops to converse with you on a social site, which TO ME is not what web 2.0 is all about.”
Yup, it’s not what it’s all about. It’s about encouraging interaction, not demanding it or expecting it, especially with a mere follow.
“Even celebrities stop and sign autographs, you know.”
It doesn’t mean the celebrity is obligated to sign autographs, let alone for ALL their fans, or to follow their fans home, etc.
Again, I get a sense that people are ENTITLED to my follow simply by following me. No, they are entitled to my respect, my continued content, my programs and services, and my customer service.
If they do have to “jump through hoops” to converse with me, as you say, then that means they are really interested in meeting with me and in what I have to say.
The most important thing to understand about this argument is that people like you who are genuine about your intent with auto-follow is giving spammers the opportunity to have their way.
They have zero intent to listen to the people they fake-follow, and give the false, misleading impression that they care.
They are abusing the whole thing.
In fact, they want people like you, Tiffany, spreading the myth that auto-follow equals courtesy or, as you imply, “true social networking.” Because it serves their purpose.
And wonderfully too, I might add.
You might have good intent with auto-follow. But most people DON’T. They only pretend they care — and that is misleading. They are misleading their fans, and their true prospects and clients. And it’s an outright disservice, in my book.
The fact is, if *I* follow someone, it means something. And if I don’t, it doesn’t mean anything.
And I resent the idea that it does. Because this is exactly what’s making many of the good guys/gals look bad, in my opinion.
To me, that’s very sad.
@RobertPuddy:
Robert (you know I love you!), what you said is misleading. You said, “By being selective you may be missing out on someone you could genuinly become friends with.”
If I find someone I’m interested in knowing more about, I’ll either follow or engage them in a conversation. I wouldn’t be missing out. And if I do, that’s a small risk compared to the bigger one of having to follow/dealing with everyone who you will never be real friends with.
It’s like saying, to paraphrase you, “By being selective with my spam I may be opting-out of a spam list which might have a good deal for me down the road a year from now.”
Tiffany, your views on auto-follow are the only things that annoy me about Twitter.
1) I hate when people follow me out of their own self interest. If they want to see what I have to say, GREAT. But if they’re hoping for a follow-back, find another sucker. That’s not the equivalent to “not waving back either”. It’s simply that I don’t know you and don’t have time to establish relationships with everybody that stumbles across my name.
2) If I follow somebody, I don’t expect a follow-back. That would be selfish. Instead, I follow because I either 1) know the person and am interested in his or her life or 2) don’t know the person, but am interested in what he or she has to say. Why would I follow somebody that I don’t know and not interested in hearing what he or she has to say?
3) Do I really feel special if some celebrity follows me back? Hell no! I know celebrities aren’t REALLY following tens of thousands of people, so the “follow back” seems utterly superficial.
In the same way that anybody has the right to choose who they follow, I have the right to choose my list as well. Auto-following people I’m not interested in just distracts from the content and posts that I actually want to read.
I think the same way as Michel so I agree with everything he says and will use Twitter the same way, though, I also think it’s just a matter of what you want to accomplish with this great social tool.
1) Establish true and solid relationships that are humanly possible to do (as Jason said above, a day only has 24 hours and 12 are already dedicated to sleep, eat, etc. and a few others to work). IMHO, following someone that you will not have time to *truly* be social with is just more rude than not following him/her.
Ex. I was SO EXCITED to be followed (well, auto-followed) by someone I admire (who has close to 20,000 followers). I sent him replies and DM’s and NO RESPONSE. I felt used and felt the auto-follow was just fake and the intention was for me to keep following him so I could see his ads. Why auto-follow if it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to be social with everyone when you reach those amounts of followers? Get staff? NO, I follow someone because I want to be close to HIM/HER, not their staff! I immediately unfollow people using auto-messages, auto-ads and staff messages.
2) Use Twitter to advertise and make money and for that, you need a big number of followers.
3) Have the intention to be social with everyone by following everyone and reach a point you will have too many followers and as a result MANY dissapointed people when they all try to be personally social with you but you simply won’t have time to be reciprocal.
True Story: I’ve always loved Michel for many years because his truly quality products and services introduced me to Internet Marketing (along with other IM celebrities). I wanted Michel to follow me and I did an extra effort. I tried to be online when I knew he normally twitted and one day, I replied back and introduced myself. HE REPLIED and I replied back again and it was just a start of a relationship (a true one, not a fake one). Today, Michel is following me and that means so much to me because I worked hard to get the attention of a celebrity and authority I admire so much.
I’ve also tried with Jason telling him I live a few blocks away from TECATE factory (beer I know he loves) but still no luck. I’ll simply try harder
So yes, I prefer small (effective and true) than big (… …).
Just my 2 cents…
Sergio
Reading what Michael and Tiffany and others have to say on the subject and the why’s of both sides…
My take on the Auto-Follow thing is that it is a personal decision and that there is no WRONG as to which side. Except of course by those that have a strong emotional attachment to one side or the other.
I have done both and currently am auto-following though I made a concession and turned off the auto DM message when it happens.
My reasoning for choosing to auto follow mirrors what Puddy said in his reply above. I want to meet new people and see what their interests and views are. I wouldn’t have learned about some things I am interested about if it wasn’t for my auto follow feature turned on. I use TweetLater and it lets you do all sorts of things which I haven’t looked at all it can do yet.
The main point that I take from these discussions is that everyone “mostly” agrees that Twitter is about building relationships with other people and not just used to sell widgets.
I was actually shocked when Michael and his wife both followed me on Twitter. I wondered what the hell I said that was so interesting that both Fortin’s followed me. I figured it was just auto follow too.. but now that Michael stated he doesn’t auto follow… Hmmmm…
I do notice that people do unfollow then later follow me back when I do or say something that catches their attention again. I have no clue what the hell that maybe but cool…
I will probably do or say something later that all my followers unfollow me anyway. LOL
Thanks for keeping it real.
- Terry
I’m in the Michel Fortin camp.
I DO believe twitter is filled with fake followers.
I DO believe that autofollowing is a ridiculous practice.
But to Tiffany’s point…
I DO believe that people want to know the personal details of your life…if you are even slightly famous.
David Frey
Okay… #2 sounds selfish – but it’s in a different way
I’m getting the information I need an maintaining real relationships rather than trying to harass others with what I have to share (even if they’re not genuinely interested).
I’d rather have a die-hard interested list of 50 followers than a phony baloney list of 5000 auto-follows.
Does anyone really consider himself or herself an expert at how “best” to use Twitter?
If you do, more power to you. Because I know I’m not. And frankly, I don’t think any of you are either. It’s just too new.
I see how Michel, Jason and some are doing it. Then I see Willie Crawford, Mike Filsaime, Tiffany, John Reese, Matt Bacak and others do exactly the opposite. They follow everyone who follows them and then some.
I think it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you just want to keep up with your friends, then follow Michel and Jason’s advice. And if you already have name recognition you will get lost of followers anyway.
If you want to build a huge following, almost like building an online list with Twitter, do what Willie, Tiffany and others are doing. Especially if you are just starting out with no real name recognition and want to use Twitter for marketing, then I would definitely say follow the lead of Willie, Tiffany, Mike, John, etc. Because you aren’t going to have much success going Michel’s route — at least not for a very long time.
In the end, do what you want. But don’t automatically accept it when someone tells you there way is the “best” or only way to use Twitter. Because there aren’t any real Twitter gurus yet.
Not even me!
I think that there has to be a balance and it depends on what the persons goals are in using the social networks.
Yes Marketers have to get familiar and use these things to reach their goals. In marketing ANYTHING is fair game. Anything from the new item for sale or a personal challenge. No one likes to be hard sold all of the time. Its just human nature that we like to look just a bit in some ones personal lives. No one is obligated to say ALL that is going on, its HOW you use it. Some take it too far like stalking a person and satisfying fanatical obbsesions that would really need some clinical help. But knowing that some of us are not alone in some personal trial beats the clouds of depression sometimes. Sylvie ( Fortin’s wife) is going through( or has gone through) a serious health issue right now and I an taking care of some one who is going through something similar but not as serious. The stress is just the same. It all depends on the goals of the person writing and using the networks.. There is no hard and fast rule in social networking. It’s all up to you and the eye of the beholder.
I pretty much agree with Tiffany’s post. I’m using twitter as a marketing tool and find it very useful within some specific limits.
This whole business of auto-following seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. So far as I can tell the issue comes down to personal opinion and freedom of choice.
Twitter provides the potential for different people to use it for different reasons in different ways. If by chance someone wants to build a list of 20,000 followers to inflate their ego or perhaps just as a challenge, so what?
I’d like people to follow me because I offer them something of real value in my tweets. I use filtering to find people to follow I think will have an interest in what I’m doing or would offer me something of value.
I assume that followers who have no interest in me will eventually drop off and I also prune my list of followers to remove those who are clearly on a different wave length.
Earlier today I read some interesting comments on a well know blog, some of them pretty ugly in tone, on the whole issue. The discussion just seemed to be far to emotional over something which in my opinion is kind of silly.
It seems that some people have the idea that they have the absolute right to dictate rules about what is and is not acceptable on twitter.
They have staked out their own moral high ground set out their own code of ethics and call those who don’t abide by them unflattering names.
At the moment my list of followers is pretty modest but growing daily. Personally and professionally I want followers who whom I can be engaged and engaging.
If I don’t connect with them in a meaningful way un-following takes 2 clicks.
Pete – Google “Twitter Karma” – it’s a cool free tool that will mass follow for you. I will try to remember how I set up autofollow and repeat the instructions here.
Terri – agreed! Baron hit the nail on the head and I cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye that I’m not blogging about this to say “I’m right, you’re wrong, period!” I just have my own OPINION and we all know what those are like
I personally don’t get offended if someone doesn’t follow me back but some people DO, which is why I believe if you’re a marketer in the IM niche, it’s important to extend the courtesy of a reciprocal follow.
Michel – My argument makes a ton of sense in my mind
I knew when I posted this we wouldn’t agree – you wouldn’t change my mind nor me yours, because we have already learned Twitter and used it proficiently for awhile now. But the purpose is to introduce the argument/debate/pros and cons to people who are on the fence or new.
I feel like not auto following is one sided. Relationship marketing on Twitter is opening the door to a relationship, which a follow does IMO. You mentioned not having to follow to see history of posts. Right, but having their posts on a feed right in front of you is more easily accessible than trying to click on each person’s profile and see what their past posts have been.
On the free lunch, you said on your blog, “People who auto-follow and want to DM are looking for free advice. A free lunch. I don’t do free lunches.” Sorry if I misinterpreted that – I took that to mean you don’t do free lunch, period. It didn’t say anything about on your own terms. My whole point there anyway was to say you do it all the time on various places, so why say you won’t do it on DMs in Twitter?
I’m sorry you’re feeling insulted by my argument. You’re not in my head, so have no way of knowing the immense amount of respect I have for you (I tried telling you that). It was in no way meant to be insulting, snarky or whatever else it’s coming across like, I pinky swear!
Overall, you seem to see a “follow” as a demand placed on you. I see it as an opportunity to build deeper relationships with a wider audience other than they may recognize my name. I’m sure you have had the same type of emails I get: “Oh my God I’m so surprised you answered my email yourself!!” Some people who are looking up to you and your success feel honored to be able to communicate with you.
I guess what it boils down to is this – if a simple reciprocal follow would make 4,777 people on your Twitter list feel GREAT and you can use a simple tool like Tweetdeck to filter some conversations you want to make sure you don’t miss, what’s the big deal about doing it for them?
We DO agree about intent. My personal intent is to get to know all 5,215 people who are following me on whatever level I can and however they want me to. I type fast. Words come to me easy. It takes no time at all to reply in 140 characters to a few dozen people a day.
I guess I DO respect you in the fact that you said some people auto follow and it’s like fake caring – at least you’re not fake caring and stand by your convictions about it, which is something I respect
I’m sorry you resent the idea that not following means something. To me personally, it doesn’t hurt my feelings one bit, but to many people, it DOES unfortunately – and this is why I voiced my opinion about this FOR marketers who are trying to cultivate a relationship in the world of web 2.0.
Sergio – I’m very glad that you feel honored to have Michel’s follow, but I feel bad that you said you had to work so hard for it. And you still don’t have Jason’s. You’re aware of it, and that tells me something right there
Terry – you cracked me up!
Chance – “Do what you want to do,” LOVE it. That’s right
Just be aware of the consequences both ways.
Sylvie – Sorry to hear about the stress you’re going through. Web 2.0 can certainly play the role of connector to others going through hardships, I know.
I think this argument can be answered with simple life principle:
Quality always trumps quantity.
It NEVER fails!
I may come across as a snob, or rude for not following everyone that follows me, but at least I am not giving people the mistaken impression that I am reading what THEY are tweeting. No one can keep up with hundreds or thousands of tweeters and read everything they write unless they make it their full-time job. But if anyone sends a message directed at me (@lisahartwell) I see it quickly and can respond. That seems to me to be much more polite.
I’m not saying that I don’t value my followers and I often follow a conversation that interests me around Twitter, visit peoples’ blogs and follow someone new based on just this.
But the number of followers is a lot less important than the relationship I have with the ones I have and who are interested in what I say. I’m not interested in people who follow me just to get a return follow (that to me is rude), especially if they use automated tools to do it, but have no genuine desire to find out who I am or what I have to say.
I also have no desire to make myself out to be some sort of expert on the subject. I believe everyone should use Twitter in the way that works best for them. Too many people are jumping on the Twitter bandwagon and suggesting they know best (many who have only been on there a few weeks – not directing this at you Tiffany). Whichever way you choose, make sure it is working for you and give GREAT value.
Seems like using an auto follow system is not very genuine. I understand that we all have a limited amount of time to reply to email, facebook, twitter etc.
I try my best to leave a small note and follow those I have genuine interest in following.
And when we are all done it comes down to “what” is twitter and how many uses are there for it. That will dictate a follow no follow. I really chose my followers. I’d read their profile. I was most interested in IM. I wasn’t interested in comics or women in questionable clothing. I’ve been able to “know” about ten people. The rest its their avatar that catches my attention. When I come on I will seach certain people to see what they are up to or what is happening in the IM world. for example: Ed Dale,Michelle,Tiffany,Geodome and others I know by picture. Sometimes I give IM info or little tid bits I’ve found. Other times I’m just me and I might even say the lovebird is singing. What twitter is and has been and will be is left up to each individual. It won’t be long before twitter runs ads. It comes down to money no mater what they call it. There are groups like twitter Moms and that serves them. I don’t think those in IM realise how diverse the twitter crowd really is. And how many are not seeing this as a marketing opportunity. I’m still deciding what twitter is for me. Sometimes its information and othertimes just to “connect” Today I got 55 emails and they were all good ones with content. Whats a girl to do with this much communication? I also have other interests beside IM and I hear from friends in animal humane treatment. I’d like to get the ball going on making puppy mills illegal. These puppies more than make up for those euthanized each year and it is cruel and inhumane. One of the largest groups are the Amish in Ohio. Now tell me how that goes along with their religion. At least 400 puppy mills by the Amish in Ohio. Maybe I’ll find someone on twitter or I’ll stick with care2care and what they are doing. The answer to your question is ,its developing.
Tiffany,
Thanks for your words, and I want you to know that I respect you, I just chose not to use twitter the way you do, but we’re still new friends, right?
And yes, when you work hard to get something you want, it becomes more valuable (and I don’t mean I don’t value Mike Filsaime’s or John Reese’s auto-follows, but it’s different when the one who followed TOOK the decision to follow you, in my eyes, it has more meaning and much stronger bond or relationship).
Excuse my english if I’m using some words improperly but I hope they are understandable
Statistics I just calculated in my own account, took me a while hehe (rounded numbers):
30% of DM’s to auto-followers replied.
Out of this 30%, about 50% followed up by email or other means and we ended up with something positive.
80% of DM’s to manual-followers replied.
Out of this 80%, about 80% followed up by email or other means and we ended up with something positive.
My conclusion here is that, even though some auto-followers do follow up with their ppl, most don’t and I guess time management is to blame. In the other hand, most manual followers have more time to follow up more properly with their ppl.
The other thing I noticed is that most DM’s from auto-followers replying to my DM’s replied with a very short sentence (yes, shorter than 140 chars.), making me have a sence of “here you go, quick, who’s next?”. In the other hand, most manual-followers needed more than one DM (up to 12 in some cases) to reply with a more rich answer which was obviously followed up properly through email mostly.
I hope this helps your readers understand the pros and cons of each type of use for twitter.
Sergio
Hi,
Let me see if I get this straight…
Someone’s feelings are hurt if I don’t follow them back?
And only by following back I can help save their self-esteem from getting lower because their follower count statistic didn’t rise by another digit?
And therefore we both need to set up our Tweetdecks to filter each other out in order to manage the tweetstream.
What a nice social pseudo-game this is. (Not.)
What happened to Ockham’s razor?
Why not avoid those superfluous steps?
Why not only follow people you are genuinely interested in? Interested to the point that it doesn’t matter whether they follow you back or not.
Where you feel privileged to have the chance to get a micro-blogging glimpse into their life, observing and learning from them.
In this discussion it has been mentioned a couple of times to unfollow someone after a reasonable time in case they don’t follow you back?
This brings me to the question. Why did you even follow in the first place?
Apparently NOT because you were interested in the person – because then it would not matter to you at all if they followed back.
Rather selfish, and not social.
I’ve also somewhat bought into the mantra of “having” to follow people back – not to the tune of thousands, but I was up in the 300s and the signal to noise ratio has become ridiculous.
So, over the last few days I’ve gone ahead and unfollowed a lot of tweeps. Not because they did something wrong – the mistake was purely mine. I should have never followed them in the first place, since there was no real connection to begin with.
And let me tell you, it feels great.
Even though I’m not done with my purge 100%, my stream is more manageable and really relevant to me.
I get great information from people I’m interested in (although some of them had the audacity to NOT follow me back – gasp, my ego tells me to punish them immediately and unfollow and miss out on their expertise
)
I interact with people I care about and can focus on building relationships with key people and hopefully provide value/entertainment/insights/ramblings of a free-lance musician to the people who chose to follow me.
Take care,
Marko
Hi Marko!
You said, “Let me see if I get this straight…Someone’s feelings are hurt if I don’t follow them back?”
Well if you’re a marketer that others look up to (or are striving to be), then yes! Many people DO get their feelings hurt, get angry, or whatever. Not me personally, but yes, a good amount do.
Why not this and that? Because it’s a social network and as I said before, in my opinion, there are courtesies and etiquette to be followed. Let’s call it Twetiquette. lol
I don’t personally unfollow anyone who doesn’t follow me back – I follow many who don’t follow me back – that doesn’t bother me at all. But it does SOME people, obviously as you’ve read here – and I’m saying if you’re a marketer, realize that many customers/prospects will feel this way. They get offended.
But don’t say they unfollowed because they just wanted a number and weren’t interested in the person in the first place because that’s not accurate. Some people just get their feelings hurt and it alters their opinion of you.
How do I know this? I hear from people who say, “Tiff, why don’t some hoity toity marketers follow me back? That’s so rude!” So I am trying to let marketers know – it matters to many.
Even when I swapped my Facebook page into a fan page (after many marketers got their accounts shut down or reached Facebook’s limits), I got tons of emails and messages from people wondering why they weren’t friends with me on FB anymore. People care. I moved them to a fan page for the same layout, etc., but Twitter doesn’t have that.
I don’t know what niche you’re in so I can’t comment on how it will affect you (you talk about musician). My post was directed at marketers.
Tiff
Hi Tiffany,
Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.
But like in real life, Twetiquette is not universal.
Do you burp after a meal? Do you find it gross and/or disgusting?
In other cultures, a burp is expected from you as a show of appreciation towards your host. It means that you enjoyed your meal and without your burping they’d be offended and their feelings would be hurt.
What about eye contact/looking someone directly in the eyes?
Is that a sign of honesty, openness, self-confidence, or is it rude and offensive (which in certain cultures it is)?
Actually, I was aware that many people do get their feelings somewhat hurt by a no-followback.
Sorry that my cynicism might not have come through as intended and you put your valuable time into making that point again.
Maybe part of a Twetiquette could also include to respect the choice of so-called twitter snobs to selectively follow people back and “work” a little bit on controlling your own feelings and expectations better.
Marko
Hi Tiffany,
I really appreciate your views, and you made some really sensible points. And despite Michel’s rebuttle in regard to whom you should and shouldn’t follow (& I was thinking that way also, until I read your piece!) my nouveau feeling is that they must be following you ’cause they’re interested in what you have to offer. That said, these are ALL potential clients, so what better a way of giving at least a “handshake”?
John
P.S. I really want to thank you for the great PLR I purchased the other day – really well done, and will be the most reasonably priced PLR with the most relevent info!
Right on, Marko!
When I see people that follow 1000’s, I can’t help but feel that if they auto-followed me, that the extent of our ‘quality’ relationship would be them adding me to their filter-out list.
What a great connection! :-/
Now, if we’re talking about hurt feelings here, and not so much which approach produces a truly quality experience, then I’ll step aside.
One last comment…
As a marketer, is it reasonable for others to expect you to sign up to their list, or blog, or forum just because they did yours?!?
That would be insane!
It wouldn’t be practical on any level.
Same principle applies to this argument.
Of course, if there is actually someone sane who does this, then I may stand corrected.
Marko, no Twetiquette isn’t universal, but if I go to a country and I know about a cultural issue, I’ll do my best to conform to their way of life as long as it’s not in violation of my own ethics or whatever. You seem to know that a no follow hurts your followers feelings but don’t care – that’s a whole other issue. Are you a marketer?
John – thanks for the compliment! I appreciate the business to my PLR Mini Mart!
Derek – It can be a great connection if you’re given the chance! I have an awesome connection to many of my followers – we chit chat about stuff, recommend stuff, JV even. But I’ve opened that door at least
I think the follow back gives to both issues – emotions and experience. Like I said to Michel about email opt ins, an email is something coming to you personally, Twitter is a SOCIAL web 2.0 public site – so it’s different IMO.
Tiff
Hey Tiffany, great blog post, I also wrote one on this topic too. The best advantage of autofollow for me is to reciprocate twitter love, if you take the time to follow me, then I do the same, that’s how I treat people, with respect.
But, it’s also time, I don’t want to sit there for hours going through pages to see who’s following me or not following me, which I did about a week ago then I turned on autofollow, and I especially like the “autounfollow” too, it frees up your twitter management and gives you more time to tweet
Terrance Charles
http://www.terrancecharles.com/blog
OK, one more comment…
There’re a lot of people who are comparing a follow as a handshake or acknowledgment, but it’s WAY more than that – it’s an investment in time over a long-term.
You’re not just spending two seconds shaking hands, you’re making a *long-term* commitment of time – essentially stating. “I’m going to spend my precious time to follow what you have to say on a regular, ongoing basis – no matter whether what you talk about interests me or not.”
And if you’re NOT really making a long-term commitment of time (you’re filtering out their stream anyway), then your handshake isn’t genuine at all! It’s totally phony!
As for these people who get offended when they’re not followed back, do they also get ticked when they go to a concert, jump up and down vigorously to get noticed by the performer, only to go the whole night and not even get a glance?
Think about it!
Hi Tiff
Thanks for your thought provoking blog post which I’ve read with interest. There are valid arguments for both sides and it’s definitely personal choice which camp you resignate with the most.
Personally my Twitter strategy is to follow back anyone who follows me and who have @replies in their feed opposed to just sales pitches. After all what is the point of having a follower who isn’t interested in getting to know me and by following them back they are only going to send me sales links and the best way to get thousands of followers overnight. I’m not interested in this.
I do however follow people who only post interesting and useful links that I can use in my business and who don’t follow me back, I use this as a great learning relationship albeit one sided and I’m fine with that.
I never use auto follow and manually check out each individual profile and, if I have time, check out their website too because I want to know who is following me. I use Twitter to build relationships with my followers, I want to get to know more about them and their businesses. After having an interesting exchange on Twitter with some of my followers I’ll often send a personal DM or connect with them on Facebook and ask if they wanted to take the conversation to the phones so that I can learn more about them. I totally understand that this is impossible for most marketers in terms of time and other reasons.
I have met some great people by doing this and have set up several joint ventures using this strategy and my network has grown accordingly.
As for auto dms, I dont use them and I only reply to dms that mention my name in the message so that I know that they are not automated and unfortunately my inbox is full of direct messages that are obviously automated which does save time for the sender but personally I prefer the personal touch – not everyone does nor do they care about it.
I have come across different Twitter strategies and respect most of them, the only one I don’t respect is that of the blatant spammer and we all don’t like them
I don’t take offense if someone doesn’t follow me back or stops following me, it’s their personal choice and I respect that and focus on those who are following me and building a relationship with them. Yes, it is impossible to do it with every single follower, especially if you have thousands of followers but i try to reply to as many tweets as I can when I am on Twitter and reply to every @reply I get and Tiff I agree, Tweetdeck is an amazing tool for Twitter and use it all the time.
Thanks again for such a thought provoking blog post and it reinforced my belief that your reasons for using and your use of Twitter is purely personal and there are no right or wrong ways of doing so. So long as you use your strategy with integrity!
well, i actually just had this conversation with a friend that i work with a couple of days ago. my view is i don’t use twitter but as a writer i think it is good for getting people to look at your work but if you want to tell a million people you just had a shower then well pathetic is the word that comes to mind.
sorry if i offended anyone.
I spend what’s becoming way too much time looking at the Twitter pages of those who have just followed me. I never had an “auto follow” set up, but there for a while I felt somewhat “obliged” to follow back. It may not be a wise marketing decision, but I really don’t want to wade through tweets from folks with whom I have absolutely no common interest, based on what I see on their profile page, which too often, is almost nothing at all.
My interests are wide, so finding a “common interest” is not difficult. I’ll follow anyone who seems to be making a sincere effort to establish himself online in relation to marketing (in hopes of getting the same consideration from others), and I’ll follow “ordinary people” who are posting about hobbies, kids, grandkids, travel, a great recipe or restaurant, or links to weird news. I don’t follow those whose first and often only post is the auto-post from some magical Twitter-follower system, most particularly if they have no name, no bio, or no link.
I will admit that although I guess I’m glad that I’m getting more followers every day, I miss seeing the posts of those whom I originally chose to follow and whose posts are important to me but are lost in the stream. I saw something yesterday about the ability to organize your followers into groups and I want to check that out. I want my own personal list of easy-to-access “followers”. Just not enough time in the day….
I totally agree with your viewpoint! In fact, I found this post through Twitter. Twitter is a social tool and should be used to communicate and build relationships with others. Which means you talk about everything – not just business.
Marketing is about building relationships. Don’t you usually buy from people you know, like, and trust? Twitter is another way to get to know people. People are more than just prospects.
Thanks for writing this post!
A final word.
One of the problems in this debate is that people feel they have a sense of entitlement. I think that’s the real issue, here. (And it’s appalling.)
People feel entitled to a follow back, to access to some marketer or celebrity, to free help or advice.
I’m sorry, but those things are earned, not automatic. They are not to be taken for granted. Nor should they be expected.
And if you feel entitled to them, then you are blocking your own growth and success, because you will never feel able to truly earn it. Your delusions come out from a scarcity mindset rather than a prosperity mindset.
Personally, I find it insulting that someone would feel entitled to my follow back, let along to my time or attention.
And guess what? If you really, really, really want to make money in this biz, so SHOULD YOU. So should you feel insulted, stop auto-following, and starting to value your time and efforts.
If I follow you it’s because… get this… I want to follow you. (What a neat concept, huh?)
I’m following you because I’m genuinely interested in what you have to say. In fact, auto-follow is the opposite. It’s disingenuous.
Remember, Twitter itself said it. Not me.
And auto-follow is killing Twitter. Will it die? Probably not. But it might become another free-for-all wasteland like MySpace where spammers roam freely.
And those who still continue to fight this, are using extraneous concepts, senseless filler, and irrational myths to prove their delusions.
Such as the idea that it’s discourteous or it hurts other people’s feelings. I’m shocked that I’m made to feel RESPONSIBLE for everyone’s little insecurities. And shame on you if you try to make me feel so.
And folks, that’s the MYTH that’s being propagated. Especially by spammers.
It’s not my responsibility.
I’m a marketer, not a psychologist.
And using this as an excuse?
Oh, please. Grow up.
I guess that’s the same as someone who loves to receive spam, because getting a lot of email makes them feel special. C’mon on.
It’s B.S. And fighting this topic, especially with people with a vested interest in winning such a specious argument — especially if they have, for example, a product for sale in which they recommend auto-follow, and rather than accepting defeat or the plausibility in the other person’s argument they need to save face — then it’s a losing battle.
So I give up.
I’ll end this here.
But please, use your heads.
Use logic and common sense.
And enjoy Twitter in whatever way you like to.
As with all other social networks, it seems like a full time job of building relationships. I don’t get how people so it so well! I get lost trying to keep up!
Hey John
You said “they must be following you ’cause they’re interested in what you have to offer” and I’d like to briefly correct this misconception, if I may.
This is a common misconception, and the primary reason people use auto-follow.
But the facts do not support it.
The fact is that many who have been teaching people to auto-follow as a form of “netiquette” are teaching this for nefarious reasons.
They want you to believe it is rude not to follow everyone who follows you.
Why?
Because on the flip side of that scenario they are using automated software and mass following thousands upon thousands of twitter users, knowing full well that many are following everyone who follows them. This software harvests thousands of twitter users and automatically follows them, waits for the “reciprocal follow” and if it doesn’t happen, the software (not the person) automatically un-follows.
Same as spam harvesting software, isn’t it?
THIS is what’s really happening. And THIS is what Michel and I are both very much alarmed by.
You are made to believe that if someone follows you, they are real people, genuinely interested in what you have to say. But the facts do not support this belief.
Michel and I both love Twitter, but not as a means of building a false list of automated robots all trying to blast their links at one another.
We love it because it gives us a concise, meaningful way of communicating with like minded PEOPLE.
Our method of only following people we are genuinely interested in, people who have reached out to personally communicate with us, is the only way we can see a use for Twitter.
Like Michel said, it is heading towards becoming yet another FFA link farm, and we would hate to see it go that route.
It’s heading there, not because genuine people are using “reciprocal follow” methods, but because nefarious folks are preaching to innocent bystanders a new religion…one of “twitterquette” and implying that those who are using it for genuine personal SOCIAL reasons are being rude or snobs.
That some people don’t see logic when it stares them in the face, astounds me.
Like Michel…I give up. The arguments are on the table. See the facts or don’t.
But understand that nefarious folks will always find a way to convince nice people that their methods work.
Can anyone who auto-follows me promise that the auto-follow means you’re going to give regular, ongoing attention to my stream?
After all, that’s what a truly QUALITY connection/relationship is all about.
If not, if after the auto-follow I’m simply delegated to the back-end of a filter, how is that polite?
Knowing that my stream is ending up in your virtual ‘file 13′, is not something I even remotely consider socially acceptable or proper etiquette – for ANY reason!
Alright, I’m sure Tiffany is tired of this, so I’ll say goodbye again.
Everyone uses Twitter for their own purposes. Some to socialize, some to market, some to spam, some to hook up, etc.
Michel isn’t wrong in his approach. Nor is he right. Tiffany isn’t wrong or right either. They are just different.
Will Twitter go the way of Free For All Classified sites? I doubt it. People said the same about MySpace and Facebook and it hasn’t happened yet.
But if it does, so what? Just as no one is “entitled” to a return follow, social media sites like Twitter aren’t “entitled” to be anything other than what they become.
Social media isn’t “sacred.” It’s a business. A business to make money. A business that depends on USER generated content to survive. Everyone who uses Twitter has an agenda of some sort. The sites have to balance their own interests with those of the users. And that means they have to allow some marketing. Otherwise, they wouldn’t see the numbers they see now.
There is no right way to use Twitter. There are only a wide variety of ways.
In the end, it’s not that big a deal. Twitter is only a website – a tool – nothing more. There is no reason for anyone to get all bent out of shape when others disagree with their OPINION on how it should be used.
For those who cannot outsource their twittering, it can be a problem. I know someone who complains he has so many followers but most of them are not listeners. And so some use filters.
I’m barely past the newbie stage so it’s funny to see hundreds of my mentors following me. How can I not follow back! For advanced marketers, this could be good. For us beginners, it’s just another way to fill the inboxes that we no longer have time to read.
As to messages, I think a 140 word riddle will attract the curious. But what do I have to show to other more advanced marketers?
Seems like everything has been said already – both pro and contra.
Thanks for the spirited, yet civil and courteous debate. I really appreciate it.
My final last plea to the auto-follow camp is to consider the other way(s) to use twitter that might go against your own interpretation of social networks.
As Tiffany said in reply:
“Marko, no Twetiquette isn’t universal, but if I go to a country and I know about a cultural issue, I’ll do my best to conform to their way of life as long as it’s not in violation of my own ethics or whatever.”
Tiffany, did you use that sentence to imply that auto-follow is the universal, natural way to use Twitter? Or do I misunderstand you here?
You are hurting my feelings.
No, seriously, couldn’t this also mean that I can expect people to conform to my usage of Twitter? Or at least be mature enough to consider the possibility of a non-follow without getting upset?
After all, the little button that people click says “Follow” NOT “Get Followed.”
And since you asked a 2nd time, no, I wouldn’t call myself a marketer, although marketing is part of what any free-lancer does to generate business.
Take care,
Marko
I was thinking of using auto-follow after reading the start of this thread, and then I got some more follows that reminded me why I maybe shoudn’t after all.
There’s another point here which stacks against auto-follows, and that’s the fact that there are many ‘very young’ people using Twitter now.
I regularly have young teenagers following me, and as I’m in my late 50’s I would find it uncomfortable ‘following’ them back. If I was using auto-follow I wouldn’t have the option to select them ‘out’ of my feed.
Perhaps I’m being too over-cautious, and I know there are many youngsters who are absolute genius internet marketers, and I have chosen to follow a couple for that very reason. But I’d hate to find out one day that I was following a whole bunch of random youngsters: What would the ‘thought Police’ think of that??
Just a thought – Hmmmmm
Pete.
Marko said, “couldn’t this also mean that I can expect people to conform to my usage of Twitter? Or at least be mature enough to consider the possibility of a non-follow without getting upset?”
Sure in a perfect world, which it’s not. Point is, many people WILL be upset. You can appease them or not. If you’re a marketer teaching marketers, which you said you’re not, then it may matter.
In other niche markets, I don’t think it matters as much. IE: I don’t think a fan of a simple celebrity expects to be followed back. I think the fans of a marketer in the IM niche using a social network DO expect a follow back because they’re being taught about social networking and the relationship building process, etc.
Pete – I wouldn’t worry about the age of the Tweople following you at all
For an IM newbie (with a website barely published & a few Squidoo lenses up) that has not yet ventured into the “Tweet-scape”, the terms “can of worms” & “Pandors’a box” come to mind.
After reading all the arguments, I agree that what really matters are your specific goals in using Twitter and how far along you are in reaching those goals.
I do appreciate the candor & sincerity evident in the posts of Michel & Tiffany, as well as the other contributors. I plan to weigh it all to help evaluate what approach seems best for me when I do get to Twitter.